MARSHALL: (After a while).  This was in the early days of Discordia, before the
first draft of the book--
Principia Discordia--was finished. Hill and Thornley put
themselves in the book many times, different characters, but not as gods. So they
got talking about how if they were gods which ones would they be.

We talked about Hindu gods. The gods had five primary flavors--that's really what
it means in Hinduism. There was a lot of Hindu ideas for a book we never did. The
title was going to be
The Five Flavors of Heaven and Why I Like Life Savers
. Life Savers candy back then had five flavors, just like the Hindus. And they
cost a nickel for a roll, so there was another five. You'll see fives everywhere if you
look hard enough.

I think that was the primary reason for the number five being so important in
Discordianism, that and the first five books of the Bible. The five patron saints of
Eris--those are from Hindu avatars mixed with other things.

One time it was just Hill and me. We decided Kerry would be Shiva, but an aspect;
Limgam I think. (
The avatar is Shiva linga--P.H.)  The god dances, and is
associated with sex and the male sex organ. We decided that would be Thornley,
the dancing penis. We told Thornley later and he loved that. He even wrote
something called "The Dancing Penis." Or maybe it was "The Dancing Dildo."

Hill said I would be Surya, the fire bird or sun god because you always knew when
the sun would get up and when it would go to bed. Not much of a reason for being
a god, but that was me, by the clock.

I picked Hill as Ganesha, the elephant-headed god over science, writing, and
wisdom. Hill was like the elephant, the one the blind men felt in the old Hindu story.
They all felt a different part, the one touching the leg felt a tree stump, the one
whose hand reached the trunk felt a snake, the one touching the tusk felt a spear,
etc. They all thought they knew what they had, but none of them really knew the

Hill was quiet for a moment. Then he asked, "Does the elephant know himself?"  
No, it was "Can the elephant know himself?" I didn't know how to answer that. But
the question made a deep impression on Hill.

I don't think Hill ever solved that mystery. Like I said I didn't know him in his last
years. But I wonder if, while he was lying on his death bed dying of cancer, if the
last thing he asked before he died was that very question.

"Can the elephant know himself?"

This is the last interview Pope Hilde or anyone will have with Richard Marshall. Out
of respect for his insistence on privacy for himself and his family, the exact date
and place will not be posted here.  But in 2012, Marshall died of cardiac arrest.
This is kerry thornley dot com, a site about kerry wendell thornley aka lord oma khayyam ravenhurst, co-conspirator with gregory hill aka greg hill aka
malaclypse the younger, contributor to principia discordia, worker on operation mindfuck, investigated by im garrison, friend of robert anton wilson and
robert shea, supposed co-assassin of president john f. kennedy, and fnord
An Interview with Richard Marshall
September 14, 2011

by Pope Hilde
This is part C of the third of a series of three interviews with
original Erisian Richard Marshall conducted by Pope Hilde.
We have them all.
Two Discordian views on this story,
one by Robert Anton Wilson and
the other by Reverend Loveshade,
can be found in
Discordia and Loveshade's is also
Book of Eris and
Ek-sen-trik-kuh Discordia: The
Tales of Shamlicht