MARSHALL: I remember something else. They're both about toilets. (Laughs)
Used to be almost every toilet was made by Crane, and you pulled a chain to flush
them. Pull a Chaney to flush a Crane. Potty joke.
But Chaney and Crane both failed to change the world, which is Voegelin. He
said you can't change--can't remember the phrase--you can't make heaven on
earth.
HILDE: The phrase used in the trilogy is "immanentize the eschaton." It can mean
both "make heaven on earth" and "end the world."
MARSHALL: You know the Fernando Poo joke? It's been years.
HILDE: Please tell it.
MARSHALL: That's the only one that's mine. Guess I did contribute something.
Fernando Poo, where Pyramid begins? (The Eye in the Pyramid is the first book
of The Illuminatus! Trilogy --P.H.) A very old name for a real island in Africa. They
didn't create it--I found the name--but they did make up the war. It's a joke that
nobody gets, inside joke. "Fernando" is also--called Ferdinand the Bull but it's the
same name--he's a gentle "bull" who likes flowers more than violence. An old kids
story, remade by Disney. "Poo" is short for poop. Fernando Poo.
HILDE: So in context of the book, if not in real life, "Fernando Poo" means bullshit?
MARSHALL: It's obvious now, but back then nobody but us said "poo." That's the
only thing I did for the P.D., because it's a joke there too, a quote. Fernando Poo,
the real island, used to be called something that meant "beautiful flower."
Something "flora," I think. (The island was called "Formosa Flora." -- P.H.) They
used that in Summa Universalia--Principia Discordia--too, but I can't remember the
quote.
HILDE: "Bullshit makes the flowers grow, and that's beautiful."
MARSHALL: That's it! You remember it. It's the same joke as Fernando Poo in
Pyramid. Bullshit and flowers.
HILDE: The male Sacred Chao.
MARSHALL: In a way.
HILDE: Let me make sure I understand this. The real-life Midget--Quinn--was also
The Game Master, who then must be the same as The GameMaster of Florin,
"Florin" meaning both money and flowers?
MARSHALL: Maybe I didn't think of it first. Maybe it was Quinn. I think I found
Fernando Poo, he thought of the rest. Said he came from there. Crazy kid. He
must be the youngest one who got something in Principia Discordia.
One time he said he was an Eskimo, The Mighty Quinn.
HILDE: Wasn't there a movie called "The Mighty Quinn?" But I don't believe it was
about an Eskimo.
MARSHALL: No. Denzel Washington's black, like the real Quinn--see how it all
connects? (The movie starred Denzel Washington as the title character--P.H.)
But that's not it, just synchronicity. It's a Dylan song (singer-songwriter Bob Dylan.
The song was made popular in the 1960s by the group Manfred Mann --P.H.).
Quinn--our Quinn--claimed Dylan wrote "Quinn the Eskimo" about him, but he
didn't. It's from this movie about Eskimo culture--Anthony Quinn was the Eskimo--
where your visitors get to have sex with your wife. Sorry, but that's the way it was.
Eskimo hospitality, cultural norm. Only this missionary wouldn't have sex with the
Eskimo's wife, being a Christian priest, so the Eskimo was terribly insulted and
killed him. The Savage Innocents, that's the name, great name--we loved that
movie. Culture clash. It all ties together, twisted. It's that way with anything
Discordian.
HILDE: Have you seen any synchronistic Discordian connections in your life?
MARSHALL: That's like the number five. You see them if you look for them.
HILDE: Do you have any examples?
MARSHALL: My personal life's that; personal.
HILDE: Several Discordians and Discordian cabals and similar groups have been
investigated by federal agents, what you called The Agents of Greyface. Usually
this has been for the "twin demons" of sex and violence, but sometimes for drugs.
Kerry Thornley, Robert Anton Wilson, Reverend Loveshade and the Discordian
Division of the Ek-sen-triks CluborGuild, Hakim Bey, Timothy Leary, Ken Kesey
and the Merry Pranksters, Steve Jackson Games, Illuminatus Inner Sanctum,
Cacophony Society, Terrorists For Truth. Forgive me for asking, but were you ever
investigated?
MARSHALL: I never got anything worse than a traffic ticket. But Jim Garrison,
Secret Service? They drove poor Thornley mad. Never should have investigated
him.
HILDE: But didn't they have a reason? Before President John F. Kennedy was
assassinated, Thornley said he wanted to see Kennedy dead. Some claimed he
publicly cheered after the assassination. And of course he was friends with Lee
Harvey Oswald, who is the man blamed for killing Kennedy. Is it really surprising
he'd get investigated?
MARSHALL: They weren't friends, Thornley and Oswald, just in the Marines
together. Thornley could argue you to death, but he couldn't kill anybody. Hating
Kennedy never made sense to me. He wanted Nixon to win? (Richard M. Nixon
was John F. Kennedy's primary opponent for U. S. president in 1960 --P.H.) I
think it was another of his mindfucks.
Time.
HILDE: I beg your pardon?
MARSHALL: I gave you so much time. It's already over. Sorry, Hilde, but this is it.
Have a doctor's appointment.
HILDE: I understand and appreciate your time. Thank you, Richard Marshall.
Perhaps we can talk again?
MARSHALL: Possible. See how this goes first. How it comes out in print.
HILDE: Before we conclude this interview, is there anything you'd like to add?
MARSHALL: No.
Used to be almost every toilet was made by Crane, and you pulled a chain to flush
them. Pull a Chaney to flush a Crane. Potty joke.
But Chaney and Crane both failed to change the world, which is Voegelin. He
said you can't change--can't remember the phrase--you can't make heaven on
earth.
HILDE: The phrase used in the trilogy is "immanentize the eschaton." It can mean
both "make heaven on earth" and "end the world."
MARSHALL: You know the Fernando Poo joke? It's been years.
HILDE: Please tell it.
MARSHALL: That's the only one that's mine. Guess I did contribute something.
Fernando Poo, where Pyramid begins? (The Eye in the Pyramid is the first book
of The Illuminatus! Trilogy --P.H.) A very old name for a real island in Africa. They
didn't create it--I found the name--but they did make up the war. It's a joke that
nobody gets, inside joke. "Fernando" is also--called Ferdinand the Bull but it's the
same name--he's a gentle "bull" who likes flowers more than violence. An old kids
story, remade by Disney. "Poo" is short for poop. Fernando Poo.
HILDE: So in context of the book, if not in real life, "Fernando Poo" means bullshit?
MARSHALL: It's obvious now, but back then nobody but us said "poo." That's the
only thing I did for the P.D., because it's a joke there too, a quote. Fernando Poo,
the real island, used to be called something that meant "beautiful flower."
Something "flora," I think. (The island was called "Formosa Flora." -- P.H.) They
used that in Summa Universalia--Principia Discordia--too, but I can't remember the
quote.
HILDE: "Bullshit makes the flowers grow, and that's beautiful."
MARSHALL: That's it! You remember it. It's the same joke as Fernando Poo in
Pyramid. Bullshit and flowers.
HILDE: The male Sacred Chao.
MARSHALL: In a way.
HILDE: Let me make sure I understand this. The real-life Midget--Quinn--was also
The Game Master, who then must be the same as The GameMaster of Florin,
"Florin" meaning both money and flowers?
MARSHALL: Maybe I didn't think of it first. Maybe it was Quinn. I think I found
Fernando Poo, he thought of the rest. Said he came from there. Crazy kid. He
must be the youngest one who got something in Principia Discordia.
One time he said he was an Eskimo, The Mighty Quinn.
HILDE: Wasn't there a movie called "The Mighty Quinn?" But I don't believe it was
about an Eskimo.
MARSHALL: No. Denzel Washington's black, like the real Quinn--see how it all
connects? (The movie starred Denzel Washington as the title character--P.H.)
But that's not it, just synchronicity. It's a Dylan song (singer-songwriter Bob Dylan.
The song was made popular in the 1960s by the group Manfred Mann --P.H.).
Quinn--our Quinn--claimed Dylan wrote "Quinn the Eskimo" about him, but he
didn't. It's from this movie about Eskimo culture--Anthony Quinn was the Eskimo--
where your visitors get to have sex with your wife. Sorry, but that's the way it was.
Eskimo hospitality, cultural norm. Only this missionary wouldn't have sex with the
Eskimo's wife, being a Christian priest, so the Eskimo was terribly insulted and
killed him. The Savage Innocents, that's the name, great name--we loved that
movie. Culture clash. It all ties together, twisted. It's that way with anything
Discordian.
HILDE: Have you seen any synchronistic Discordian connections in your life?
MARSHALL: That's like the number five. You see them if you look for them.
HILDE: Do you have any examples?
MARSHALL: My personal life's that; personal.
HILDE: Several Discordians and Discordian cabals and similar groups have been
investigated by federal agents, what you called The Agents of Greyface. Usually
this has been for the "twin demons" of sex and violence, but sometimes for drugs.
Kerry Thornley, Robert Anton Wilson, Reverend Loveshade and the Discordian
Division of the Ek-sen-triks CluborGuild, Hakim Bey, Timothy Leary, Ken Kesey
and the Merry Pranksters, Steve Jackson Games, Illuminatus Inner Sanctum,
Cacophony Society, Terrorists For Truth. Forgive me for asking, but were you ever
investigated?
MARSHALL: I never got anything worse than a traffic ticket. But Jim Garrison,
Secret Service? They drove poor Thornley mad. Never should have investigated
him.
HILDE: But didn't they have a reason? Before President John F. Kennedy was
assassinated, Thornley said he wanted to see Kennedy dead. Some claimed he
publicly cheered after the assassination. And of course he was friends with Lee
Harvey Oswald, who is the man blamed for killing Kennedy. Is it really surprising
he'd get investigated?
MARSHALL: They weren't friends, Thornley and Oswald, just in the Marines
together. Thornley could argue you to death, but he couldn't kill anybody. Hating
Kennedy never made sense to me. He wanted Nixon to win? (Richard M. Nixon
was John F. Kennedy's primary opponent for U. S. president in 1960 --P.H.) I
think it was another of his mindfucks.
Time.
HILDE: I beg your pardon?
MARSHALL: I gave you so much time. It's already over. Sorry, Hilde, but this is it.
Have a doctor's appointment.
HILDE: I understand and appreciate your time. Thank you, Richard Marshall.
Perhaps we can talk again?
MARSHALL: Possible. See how this goes first. How it comes out in print.
HILDE: Before we conclude this interview, is there anything you'd like to add?
MARSHALL: No.
This is kerry thornley dot com, a site about kerry wendell thornley aka lord omar khayyam ravenhurst, co-conspirator with gregory hill aka greg hill aka
malaclypse the younger, contributor to principia discordia, worker on operation mindfuck, investigated by im garrison, friend of robert anton wilson and
robert shea, supposed co-assassin of president john f. kennedy, and fnord
malaclypse the younger, contributor to principia discordia, worker on operation mindfuck, investigated by im garrison, friend of robert anton wilson and
robert shea, supposed co-assassin of president john f. kennedy, and fnord
| An Interview with Richard Marshall June 10, 2009 by Pope Hilde |
| This is part D of the first of a series of three interviews with original Erisian Richard Marshall conducted by Pope Hilde. We have them all. |
| PART D |
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| This interview also appears in Intermittens Magazine Issue 7 with our permission. |