HILDE: There are several references to Mao Tse-tung in Principia Discordia. But
they are generally negative.
MARSHALL: No. Brilliant mind, master tactician. Discordians borrowed Mao's idea
as "Discordians must stick apart." It's guerilla warfare--Mao used it brilliantly, but it
started with the Spanish. When you're out-numbered and outgunned, it's the best
way to go. It's using cells or cabals, where each cell is a few people who work
independently of all the others. If the police or the military grab one cell, no one
can rat out the others because they don't know what the others are doing, where
they are or even who they are. And stopping one cell doesn't hurt the others,
because they're all working independently. That's why Mao used cells, and we did
too--secret cabals, holy names, some real, some fictional, truth and lies stirred
together; it's anonymous. That's how Mao won China.
It's from game theory. You know game theory?
HILDE: I've heard of it.
MARSHALL: Study it. Everything in life comes from games. We used it. Wilson said
be unpredictable, random--the only unpredictable strategy is a random one. The
only one. It's dice rolling. We always had dice, randomness. It's John Cage, the I
Ching backwards, not order in chaos, but chaos in order. Nobody knows what
anybody's doing, not even themselves. That way The Agents of Greyface--the
man, the cops, the establishment, whoever's in power--can't nail you down. It works
in war, works in protests, works in mindfucks.
But sometimes those days all get like Woodstock. If you remember it, you weren't
really there.
HILDE: Were you at the Woodstock concert in 1969?
MARSHALL: Don't remember.
HILDE: Have you heard of OMGASM?
MARSHALL: What's that, tantric sex?
HILDE: No, it stands for Operation Mindfuck: Golden Apple Seed Mission.
(Correction: it's also the name of a short film which is about yoga and sex. --P.H.)
It's relatively new. It's the idea of sending out a mindfuck to different cabals,
planting mindfucks like golden apple seeds that are spread around and grow.
MARSHALL: Glad OM is still growing. Idea's not new, though; we did it. I never
thought Discordia would go anywhere. Back then.
HILDE: Wilson and Shea credited Markoff Chaney with starting Operation
Mindfuck, at least in a fictional way.
MARSHALL: Who?
HILDE: The Midget, Operation Mindfuck's Patron Saint.
MARSHALL: He always had a twisted practical joke or scheme going. But I never
heard him called that. His name was Quinn.
HILDE: I'm sure he was called Markoff Chaney in The Illuminatus! Trilogy, the
series by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson. At least the fictional version of
him was.
MARSHALL: Been so long since I read. Yes, Chaney, The Midget. You have to
know Voegelin (Eric Voegelin was a political philosopher. His philosophy is a key
part of the trilogy --P.H.) to know the book. No, they called him Chaney? Wasn't it
Crane?
HILDE: Let me check my notes. (Checks) Hagbard Celine, the Captain Nemo-like
owner of the golden submarine Leif Ericson, was called Howard Crane in another
of Wilson's books.
MARSHALL: That was The Midget.
HILDE: But in the books--
MARSHALL: I remember. The Midget and The Captain are the same character. It
was Wilson's joke, something like Quinn--or anybody--could go different ways. Roll
of the dice, different paths, like that. Game theory again. Use his prankstership to
continue doing small pranks like the freak Chaney, or go like Crane, get rich and
afford huge pranks that would change the world--but do it on the yellow submarine.
The Beatles, they were mindfuckers too, especially Lennon. Listen to "Yellow
Submarine," Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds," "Nowhere Man," "I am the Walrus."
There's a lot of Lewis Carroll there, a lot of mindfucking.
But The Captain and The Midget? Chaney, Crane--listen to the names, spell them
out. They're really the same.
HILDE: And they both sound like Quinn, don't they?
they are generally negative.
MARSHALL: No. Brilliant mind, master tactician. Discordians borrowed Mao's idea
as "Discordians must stick apart." It's guerilla warfare--Mao used it brilliantly, but it
started with the Spanish. When you're out-numbered and outgunned, it's the best
way to go. It's using cells or cabals, where each cell is a few people who work
independently of all the others. If the police or the military grab one cell, no one
can rat out the others because they don't know what the others are doing, where
they are or even who they are. And stopping one cell doesn't hurt the others,
because they're all working independently. That's why Mao used cells, and we did
too--secret cabals, holy names, some real, some fictional, truth and lies stirred
together; it's anonymous. That's how Mao won China.
It's from game theory. You know game theory?
HILDE: I've heard of it.
MARSHALL: Study it. Everything in life comes from games. We used it. Wilson said
be unpredictable, random--the only unpredictable strategy is a random one. The
only one. It's dice rolling. We always had dice, randomness. It's John Cage, the I
Ching backwards, not order in chaos, but chaos in order. Nobody knows what
anybody's doing, not even themselves. That way The Agents of Greyface--the
man, the cops, the establishment, whoever's in power--can't nail you down. It works
in war, works in protests, works in mindfucks.
But sometimes those days all get like Woodstock. If you remember it, you weren't
really there.
HILDE: Were you at the Woodstock concert in 1969?
MARSHALL: Don't remember.
HILDE: Have you heard of OMGASM?
MARSHALL: What's that, tantric sex?
HILDE: No, it stands for Operation Mindfuck: Golden Apple Seed Mission.
(Correction: it's also the name of a short film which is about yoga and sex. --P.H.)
It's relatively new. It's the idea of sending out a mindfuck to different cabals,
planting mindfucks like golden apple seeds that are spread around and grow.
MARSHALL: Glad OM is still growing. Idea's not new, though; we did it. I never
thought Discordia would go anywhere. Back then.
HILDE: Wilson and Shea credited Markoff Chaney with starting Operation
Mindfuck, at least in a fictional way.
MARSHALL: Who?
HILDE: The Midget, Operation Mindfuck's Patron Saint.
MARSHALL: He always had a twisted practical joke or scheme going. But I never
heard him called that. His name was Quinn.
HILDE: I'm sure he was called Markoff Chaney in The Illuminatus! Trilogy, the
series by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson. At least the fictional version of
him was.
MARSHALL: Been so long since I read. Yes, Chaney, The Midget. You have to
know Voegelin (Eric Voegelin was a political philosopher. His philosophy is a key
part of the trilogy --P.H.) to know the book. No, they called him Chaney? Wasn't it
Crane?
HILDE: Let me check my notes. (Checks) Hagbard Celine, the Captain Nemo-like
owner of the golden submarine Leif Ericson, was called Howard Crane in another
of Wilson's books.
MARSHALL: That was The Midget.
HILDE: But in the books--
MARSHALL: I remember. The Midget and The Captain are the same character. It
was Wilson's joke, something like Quinn--or anybody--could go different ways. Roll
of the dice, different paths, like that. Game theory again. Use his prankstership to
continue doing small pranks like the freak Chaney, or go like Crane, get rich and
afford huge pranks that would change the world--but do it on the yellow submarine.
The Beatles, they were mindfuckers too, especially Lennon. Listen to "Yellow
Submarine," Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds," "Nowhere Man," "I am the Walrus."
There's a lot of Lewis Carroll there, a lot of mindfucking.
But The Captain and The Midget? Chaney, Crane--listen to the names, spell them
out. They're really the same.
HILDE: And they both sound like Quinn, don't they?
This is kerry thornley dot com, a site about kerry wendell thornley aka lord omar khayyam ravenhurst, co-conspirator with gregory hill aka greg hill aka
malaclypse the younger, contributor to principia discordia, worker on operation mindfuck, investigated by im garrison, friend of robert anton wilson and
robert shea, supposed co-assassin of president john f. kennedy, and fnord
malaclypse the younger, contributor to principia discordia, worker on operation mindfuck, investigated by im garrison, friend of robert anton wilson and
robert shea, supposed co-assassin of president john f. kennedy, and fnord
| An Interview with Richard Marshall June 10, 2009 by Pope Hilde |
| PART C |
| This is part C of the first of a series of three interviews with original Erisian Richard Marshall conducted by Pope Hilde. We have them all. |
| HOME Bio Contact Us Credits Greg Hill Help Us Interviews JFK Kerista Letters Misc Publications Omar's Store |
"Voegelin dedicated his life to the
study of widespread political
violence and the devastation that
results when totalitarian ideologies
that closely resemble religions
foster the notion that pursuing the
creation of utopias on Earth is
achievable and worth any cost,
including death."
www.lsu.edu/artsci/groups/voegelin/
study of widespread political
violence and the devastation that
results when totalitarian ideologies
that closely resemble religions
foster the notion that pursuing the
creation of utopias on Earth is
achievable and worth any cost,
including death."
www.lsu.edu/artsci/groups/voegelin/
| This interview also appears in Intermittens Magazine Issue 7 with our permission. |